Jennifer Hale did not see KOTOR's twist coming: 'Knights of the Old Republic really showed me the level of writing, storytelling, and surprise that was possible in games'

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Fine, I'll re download it and keep playing...

I'll finish it someday, I promise. (I know nothing of the story)

Would love to see a remake from Bioware. Full voice acting, big overhauls, same story and characters and settings

Just keep the audio assets from the original.

Honestly, even the graphical assets...

The gameplay is the hardest thing for new players; I'd kill to see KOTOR in a modern engine and with some mechanics like BG3.

I booted up KotOR on a whim last week, started the character creator, said "Oh, that's right. This was based on 3E rules," and promptly noped out. I don't have the time or patience to relearn 3E's complexity.

It's a 3e base, but very simplified. It's more like 5e with extra feats and the old fortitude/reflex/will save system added on.

Am I crazy or didn't they announce this a few years ago? I could have sworn watching a tease for a KOTR remake on like the game awards or something.

Are you thinking of the MMO? It was fully voiced and set in the KOTR era.

No, there was a remake announced in 2021, it just got trapped in development hell. Supposedly it hasn't officially been cancelled yet, but I don't have my hopes up. https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kotor-remake-returns-for-annual-tradition-of-reminding-you-its-still-alive-but-no-you-cant-hear-anything-more-about-it-until-it-comes-back-next-year-to-say-it-again/

When they do the reveal there's a cinematic that shows all the unavoidable foreshadowing that you didn't notice. It goes on for a full two minutes and is only a fraction of all the foreshadowing to that point since so much is in optional dialogue. Took me completely by surprise the first time and for years I would find another bit of foreshadowing tucked away in areas of dialogue trees I hadn't gone down before each time I played.

Also helped at the time it came out, unless you purposely looked it up or forums threads about it, it was hard to randomly know about that twist. It was one of the best reveals in gaming, I'd even say ever for gaming but everyone has their opinion. Mean I was already past school so maybe those areas would have had more spoilers.

Also at that time, for the people a bit too young to know (not knocking ya just doing my Grandpa Simpson story) even if Star Wars was big for prequel trilogy, attack of the clones was out but not last one, there was no Star Wars RPG story game similar at the time or previous. And it had some of the top notch story writing for gaming.

Also that's the game where I learned about Jennifer Hale, I've always enjoyed her work since. Took awhile to remember her name I just knew the character's name for the longest time.

I loved KOTOR! I hope they use this as an opportunity to improve the story. It's hard to imagine, I know. But, KOTOR was missing a fundamental element of what makes Star Wars so great: family. Star Wars had star destroyers, light sabers, blasters, the Force, and ships. That was all great because that was the sci-fi vehicle through which the familial story was told.

Take the origional trilogy. Luke was a humble farm boy who was raised by extended family. But, as the story progressed, it was about Luke's connection to his father, Darth Vader. This culmunates into Vader chosing his son over power right at the end. When Vader dies, he looks at Luke with his human face. Truly poetic.

In the 1–3 stuff, Anakin has a mother. She raises him without a father. Qui-Gon was supposed to be that father figure, but dies to Maul. Kenobi kinda fills that role, a little. But, it was more as an older brother. In Episode 3, Kenobi says that he saw Anakin as a brother. Anakin even builds a quasi-family with Padme and, in a certain lense, Asoka as their daughter, sort of. That was what made her walking away from the temple in the end so tragic. It goes to how all of Anakin's attempts at family fail until Luke, which makes that scene of Vader turning on the emperor extra.

In the sequels, we kinda get the opportunity to compare the janky family stuff with Palpatine and his grand daughter. But, its heavily glossed over. It is of note how Ben kills his father Hans. So, it was there, but distant.

Star Wars Rebels was very much the story of family. Kanan and Hera were the parents, Sabine and Ezra were kinda like the kids, and Zeb would have been a weird uncle/older brother. But, family was what made Rebels so great. Kanan even gets his sight back while protecting his family to look at Hera one last time. That was Star Wars at its height of story telling. I haven't really seen a comparative level anywhere else to that.

Bad Batch, though a little distant and needing some squinting, was a story of family too. The bad batch were all brothers who collectively parented Omega, the adopted daughter. Even Dead Shot rejoins and "raises" Omega in the end after he chooses family over the Empire. The story finishes with Omega going off to fight with the Rebels at Yavin (sorta like a daughter going off to college).

The Mandalorian was sort of familial in that the Mandalorian kinda adopted Grogu, but Disney kinda glosses over the family stuff again.

I really hope they bring the family story forth in the KOTOR remake. Disney seems to not quiet get it and, while their games are fun and can develop a pinning of family in the stories, Disney missed the ball in Outlaws. It's sorta there in Survivor, but its not really touched on heavily like the shows and movies. The storys might progress more in that field. I hope its brought forth more in KOTOR.

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KOTOR was not a great game. There, I said it. You move too slowly. Everything is too slow, but it's very obvious in a couple areas, and it doesn't show you where to go, so you do a lot of wandering. I have little respect for a game that does not respect my time. There's also a bug where, during an encounter on Tattooine (the desert planet featured heavily in the OG Star Wars, and The Phantom Menace), you come out of a cave and a bad guy is waiting for you outside. You're meant to walk up and that triggers the battle. Even if you don't approach directly, you're forced to engage as he has a wide hit circle. Enter it, and the event is triggered. Well, the circle does not cover the entire area. Hug the wall (I went below him) and you can avoid the encounter altogether. And he just stares at you disapprovingly. Look dude, I am a Jedi, I do not fight if I don't have to, and if you're gonna glare at me, that's not a cause for me to draw my Lightsaber.

Avoiding combat with bosses isn't a bug and shouldn't be treated like one. OP's avatar comes from Deus Ex (2000), a game where you can famously avoid boss fights. Walton Simons, the primary antagonist you can actually shoot (Bob Page is the real villain, but you can only indirectly attack him, and only in the finale) (and this isn't a spoiler, the two of them are conspiring in the opening clip), can be avoided during the first fight (in the Ocean Lab) before the final fight with him (at Area 51). Even then, you don't need to actually kill him, just get away. He'll stay in his area if you run far enough. (Of course, the real OG DX players place a LAM β€” a proximity mine that can be stuck on walls β€” on the earth mover Simons spawns in front of, killing him before you ever get to him. He spawns, he dies, he continues to taunt you from beyond the grave (because that conversation is hard coded) and you walk through his bloody mess on your way out. Old games rewarded ingenuity like that, even if it wasn't intended by the developers.

So anyway, despite all that, KOTOR still stands as a classic, because the story/writing is just that damn good. I would never play it again. I like that it's been ported to modern platforms and I enjoy hearing about younger fans going through it for the first time, but I'd never put myself through the Kashyyyk (forest) level or the underwater level ever again.

Civilly expressed opinion. No annoying "if you like this you're stupid and everything wrong with gaming today" ad hominem attacks, just an opinion. I'm fine with your comment and upvoted you, but I wonder if you are getting downvoted because this post was intended for fans and this is a Debbie Downer to them (not sure), or if because a lot of fans clicked and are reflexively downvoting things they disagree with.

I don't care about votes and you shouldn't either (you being the royal you, meaning everyone). Lemmy may be based around the concepts of Reddit, but we don't need to adopt the bad parts.

The way mine is set up, I see the vote buttons, but I don't see the numbers. At all. You could kinda set Reddit up this way, but most people didn't. It works a lot better here. Don't let the opinions of others tell you how to think. Only the words. Votes are easy. Having an opinion takes more work. I think that's what we should build Lemmy on.

Anyway, no, I love KOTOR, I'm just saying it isn't a great game and it had a lot of flaws, but the good parts make me look back on it more fondly. So it's greater than the sum of its parts. And/or the writing mattered more to me over the years. Take your pick, either is valid.

I'm currently playing Mass Effect (also BioWare) and I'm seeing some of the same time-wasting tropes, but I think they're done a bit better. To be fair I am playing the Legendary Edition, so those super long elevator rides can now be skipped, and if you don't, they're much shorter. And other fixes as well β€” the Mako vehicle is no longer ass to drive, and you get full XP for shooting things with it, no more taking a target down to a sliver, then getting out to finish the job so you get all your XP.

I wonder if KOTOR might do with a Legendary Edition. Were it not for the Jedi Survivor games, I'd say there's room for a good Star Wars game. Right now we have those, the second one still being reasonably new. But we also have so few good Star Wars games (and fewer good Star Trek games, though some might say Mass Effect is unofficial Star Trek), it would be welcomed.

I wonder what the mod scene is like for KOTOR.

Yeah, Deus Ex is great in terms of flexibility. Although even when I first played it, I did wish the maps were much larger and that there were lore/world-building side quests.

Pretty extensive. I had a few gigs of kotor/2 mods at one points

Might have to try playing it with mods. I've never actually played KOTOR, but as a fan of CRPGs, I have of course heard of it.

the restored content mod for tsl is pretty great

No idea about KOTOR mods. I did play on PC when I played it. (I think it was also on PS1? PS2?)

Might be something to make it work better with modern hardware/OSes, but as far as how moddable the game is, depends on how it was made. Bethesda games, for example (and by contrast) are super moddable because the Gamebryo/Creation engine is super old and well documented β€” oh, and there's an official tool to build for it. Same tool they use to make the games. And can be used to make entire games β€” Enderal being a case in point.

Deus Ex was moddable because we could unpack the DeusEx.u file and edit certain things. One mod I used reduced jump height by about 25% or thereabouts, making some traversal previously possible, impossible, so you had to find another way. I do not believe that mod allowed soft locking of the game (e.g. trapping yourself) but it did make things a little more challenging. Not sure what the point was now, though (it did other things). The best mod in my opinion was Shifter, which set out to fix a bunch of things. Most memorable to me were the unique versions of weapons, like the Magnum 10mm handgun found on Lebedev's jet.

So I'm somewhat familiar with modding games (mostly as a user, though), and my answer for KOTOR is... it would depend. ;)